Monday, April 7, 2008

Oh, Donald...

Jocelyn and I often have coffee after Tenth - and last week we were talking about the fall-out from Three. One thing Jocelyn said has been rolling around in my brain, or more so colliding like an out of control pin-ball is, "I want to have an intellectual crush on a guy...." It's funny, we function/interact with a society that wants to have a physical crush on someone - a lust based attraction to a girl's "rack" or a guy's six pack - or anything else that the person can provide - a commercialization of a person, which is ultimately what lust is, the concern for personal gratification/need above another's need. It's funny she said this in regards to Three because the issue of lust itself has also been pin-balling around my brain as well, looking back I see lust and the overall focus of self in him - in the way I was treated and more so in the way it ended - when the fantasy of who I was going to be - of how I was going to make his life whatever he desired crashed with the realization that I was not that person or had no desire to be that person his response was one counter to what I would consider normal and rather much like Amnon - I was the guilty party - I was the one to be vilified - I was the one who failed in the fulfilling the fantasy. It's made me conscious of this issue to the point where I would have to agree with Jocelyn but in reverse - I would like someone to have an intellectual crush on me - to see the brain first and foremost, but ya I can't say I don't agree with Jocelyn - I guess that's one thing that does make me a little odd, I'm looking for a smart boy - does such a thing exist? I jest, not worries, there are plenty of you out there I know this already - like Donald Miller...


Valeria. said...

brain first? thats so hard now a days but not impossible (says the hopeless romantic)
i think it takes quite a guy to like a girl for her brain first.
same thing goes for girls though. i think we give ourselves more credit then we deserve sometimes.
only sometimes though.
very nice.

LeahA said...

I "dated" a guy in the summer that was brilliant and It definitly drew me to him but he had an arogance about him because he knew he was smart and witty and then people were easily charmed by him, so in the end i found myself annoyed by it all !!!!

Not to say that all intellectual guys are like that....come to think of it the guy I dated really wasnt intellectual but just smart.

Therrien said...

The reality is, if someone is smart, but drop dead ugly, it isnt going to matter how smart she is I am still not going to want to kiss her.

Physical attraction and lust are intended for relationships. Last time I checked there wasn't an entire book of the bible dedicated to someone writing about how much he wants to do his wife because she can discuss foreign policy. But I am pretty sure there is a book that talks about how he lusts after her because she has nice breasts.

That being said, there is a difference between lust and objectification...and finding out which is present is part of the point of dating.

jocelyn said...

Funny though - I saw Don Miller speak just after the furore around Blue Like Jazz (at which point I definitely had a writerly crush on him) and I was both impressed at his mind and spirit (and politics!) and a little disappointed at the rest.
He at the time was quite overweight, which (may have) caused his knock-kneed, flat footed gait. It was distracting. He was dressed as if for a night on the couch cheering for the Chicago Bears - or in his case, the Oregon Ducks - old ripped jeans, a slouchy oversized t-shirt and a HUGE fuzzy fleece pullover.
Later on I was able to dial down my judgmentalism and remind myself that I'm not exactly barbie-perfect myself... and that perhaps I expect so much because I had him on a pedestal.
I was disappointed because I had assumed that someone with a brain as sharp and deep as his would have other parts of his life together too - but I realize now I was being judgmental. I still think he's one of the best Christian writers of our time. Speaking of intellectual crushes, I like Mark Buchanan too.


jocelyn said...

therrien - there might be a whole book of the bible about how a husband physically longs for his wife... but there's a whole chapter of proverbs dedicated to the competence and intelligence of a godly woman (last I heard was written by a dude). I think that could be construed to value intelligence. Oh, and proverbs is also full of the importance and use of wisdom in the follower, so... safe to say that intellectual attraction is biblically sanctioned!


Therrian said...

I don't think anyone is questionting the importance of being smart and intelligent. Nor is anyone questioning that being intelligent is attractive to most people.

The point was raised that it would be nice if someone fell in love with someone because of their intelligence, not starting with physical attraction.

The reality of a romantic relationship is that it is based around sex...why? Because it is pretty much the only thing you can't/shouldn't/wouldn't do with someone who you are not romantically interested in. Last time I checked, sex involves attraction of the physical nature beyond the other aspects. And last time I checked, you generally don't get into a relationship with someone that you wouldn't want to have sex with (this would probably lead to weekly sessions on the therapist couch).

I think the conclusion is that while I am sure that there are many people out there in relationships with people that they think are smart, and many people out there in relationships with people that they think are dumber then rocks, I don't think there are many people out there in relationships (healthy ones at least) with people who they don't want to get freaky with.

People just need to accept it...romantic relationships are built upon physical attraction as the #1 gate keeper, other things can come before or after, but that is the 1 thing that needs to be there.

Oh, and Proverbs was not about how much you want to jump someone because they are smart/wise, it was about the importance of being wise, male or female, and how that was godly and thus should be important to us in our life long goal of trying to be godly.

last time I checked said...